Is Purgatory Biblical?

How it ran

1. 1:08Host states the resolution
2. 5:51Sungenis opening statement
3. 29:51White's opening statement
4. 56:03Sungenis rebuttal
5. 1:06:06White's rebuttal
6. 1:16:58Sungenis cross-examines White
7. 1:36:44White cross-examines Sungenis
8. 1:57:52Sungenis second rebuttal
9. 2:08:22White's second rebuttal
10. 2:19:25Sungenis final cross-examination
11. 2:34:30White's final cross-examination
12. 2:40:54Sungenis closing statement
13. 2:50:59White's closing statement

The key exchanges

James White's point first, then Robert's answer. The time jumps to that moment in the video.

1. 23:25

   1. Bad works or sins

   White holds, in his book and in the debate, that the judgment of 1 Corinthians 3 concerns the works and rewards of Christian workers, not sin.

   Robert answered that no passage of Scripture separates bad works from sin, and that the chapters around the passage are full of jealousy, strife, boasting and divisions, which Paul treats as sins. If building with wood, hay and straw were not sin, God would have no reason to destroy the man in verse 17.

   “Where does the Bible distinguish between bad works and sin?”

2. 26:37

   2. Saved, yet so as through fire

   White argues that the text does not say the man is purified by fire: he is saved like someone who escapes a burning house having lost everything.

   Robert answered that the Greek adverb in verse 15 means likewise or in this manner, comparing the man with his works: as the works went through the fire, so does he.

   “So, he does go through the fire.”

3. 58:38

   3. Matthew 12 and Mark 3

   White argues that the parallel in Mark 3 calls blasphemy against the Spirit an eternal sin, so Matthew 12:32 opens no door to forgiveness in the age to come, and reading it otherwise makes Mark wrong.

   Robert answered that both evangelists say the sin is never forgiven, but Matthew's wording adds a piece of information that fits purgatory, since it would be superfluous to say a sin will not be forgiven here or there unless some sins are forgiven there. He conceded it is not a strong text.

   “Now I'm not saying this is a strong verse for purgatory.”

4. 1:01:02

   4. One context or two

   White argues that verses 10 to 15 speak of workers who build on the foundation, while verses 16 and 17 shift, with a new paragraph and a plural pronoun, to those who tear down the temple.

   Robert answered that Paul's thought runs straight on from building to the temple and back to boasting in verse 21, and that the any man of verse 17 can refer to any of the people above. He suggested White's theology of the elect, not the text, requires two groups.

   “So there's no demarcation of context here.”

5. 1:04:55

   5. Suffer loss or be punished

   White argues that the verb in verse 15 is rendered suffer loss by nearly every translation, that Paul uses it that way in Philippians 3:8, and that it stands as the direct opposite of receiving a reward in verse 14.

   Robert answered that suffer loss is the right translation for the building metaphor, but that the word also carries the sense of punishment, which the Bauer lexicon lists with 1 Corinthians 3:15 as its example. What the man loses for a time is heaven itself.

   “A lot of translations translate to suffer loss and they are very correct in doing so.”

6. 1:16:58

   6. Discipline or legal punishment

   White argues that David's sufferings were a Father's discipline of His son, which is a different category from the legal punishments purgatory says must be paid off.

   Robert answered by asking whether a father who disciplines his children does not also punish them, and then pressed White to show where Scripture calls Christ's atonement a legal punishment at all.

   “When you discipline your children, do you not also punish them?”

7. 1:55:03

   7. Early prayers for the dead

   White argues, citing historians, that early prayers for the dead asked for refreshment and peace for the departed, not deliverance from a place of pain.

   Robert answered that early believers held incomplete forms of many doctrines, as with the Trinity before the fourth century, and that fathers from Tertullian and Cyril of Jerusalem to Chrysostom and Augustine spoke of prayers for the dead and purgatory together.

   “Well, you have all kinds of elementary incomplete ideas among the populace in the early centuries of the Church on many issues.”

8. 2:03:41

   8. How many judgments

   White argues that the judgment seat of 2 Corinthians 5:10 is a judgment of believers about their service, distinct from the judgment of life and death, and that purgatory itself needs a judgment at death.

   Robert answered that Scripture knows only one final judgment, in which good and bad deeds are judged, and that White had tied 1 Corinthians 3 to 2 Corinthians 5:10 in his own book. If White sees another judgment, he should show it from Scripture.

   “I don't know of any other judgment that Scripture talks about other than the final judgment.”

9. 2:35:41

   9. Able to save to the uttermost

   White argues that Hebrews 7:25 and 10:14 say Christ saves completely and has perfected those He sanctifies, which leaves no room for suffering to atone for temporal punishment.

   Robert answered that the soul in purgatory is already saved, because the guilt of sin was atoned for, so it will not suffer eternal judgment. What remains is the punishment for sin, which God applies in this life or the next, as He did with David.

   “The person who goes to purgatory is already saved.”