Why the Earth Is Not Flat

Five tests anyone can check, and what Scripture and the Fathers actually say, from the book a geocentrist wrote against the flat Earth.

  1. 1Ships sink hull first
  2. 2The sun that sets
  3. 3Two poles in the sky
  4. 4The sun that never sets south
  5. 5The flights that could not happen
  6. +What Scripture and the Fathers say

Robert Sungenis is a geocentrist: he holds that the Earth stands still at the centre of the universe while the heavens turn around it. People sometimes assume that puts him in the flat-earth camp, but in Flat Earth Flat Wrong he argues that the Earth is a fixed sphere, and that the flat-earth model fails both the evidence and the Bible.

Each test below starts with the flat-earth claim as its best advocates make it. Then comes an everyday version you can try yourself, a live diagram of the real thing, and the book's answer. The diagrams are hands-on: switch between the globe and the flat map and see which one matches what cameras, pilots and star photographers actually record.

1

“The ship just gets too small to see. Zoom in and it comes right back.”

Ships sink hull first

The flat-earth claim, at full strength

Flat-earth writers say the sea is level and that a ship sailing away does not go over any curve. It only looks that way because of perspective: everything far away shrinks and seems to merge with the horizon line, and the thick air near the water blurs the lowest part first. TJ of the Globebusters channel says he has seen many ships that seemed to vanish over the curve "restored by a high-powered telescope," and concludes that the old hull-first argument is "not a good proof of the sphere of the Earth." The Dakila researchers of the Convex Earth documentary made the same point at Lake Titicaca: when the boats faded from the naked eye, they looked again through optical instruments and found the boats still visible.

The movement also points to its founding experiment. In 1838 Samuel Birley Rowbotham waded into the Old Bedford River, held a telescope eight inches above the water, and watched a boat with a five-foot mast row six miles away. He reported that it stayed in view the whole way, although on a globe the top of the mast should have dropped about eleven feet below his line of sight. Eric Dubay lists Rowbotham's result as his first proof, and Edward Hendrie opens his case with it.

The everyday version

Someone walking away down the tracks

Hidden below the horizon

0%

Smaller and smaller, never cut off.

The book's own picture is a railroad track. The rails seem to squeeze together in the distance, but the ties never slip below the ground, and a telescope aimed at the far end shows the rails spaced apart just as they are at your feet. That is perspective: it shrinks things and never cuts off their bottoms. Someone walking away over flat ground gets smaller with their feet in view the whole time. Put a gentle rise in the way and their feet go first, then their legs, then the rest, which is exactly what a ship does at sea.
your line of sightyouhidden

What you see through a zoom lens

Hidden below the horizon

0 ft

of a 150-foot ship (0%), seen from 6 feet up

On a flat sea the ship only shrinks with distance, and a good zoom lens would always bring the whole of it back. That is not what cameras record: the hull goes first, then the decks, then the masts, and no lens recovers the part that has gone. With the book's own figures, a 6-foot viewer should lose 294 feet of the Lake Pontchartrain towers at 24 miles, and the towers do disappear from the base up. The side view squeezes the miles so the curve shows; the heights and the numbers are to scale.

The answer

The book starts with a set of twelve photographs of a ship taken over about an hour and a half. Two things happen together: the ship gets smaller, and its hull slides farther and farther below the horizon line. Perspective explains the first but not the second. Perspective shrinks an object evenly, so its height and width shrink by the same proportion. It never cuts the bottom off.

The zoom lens settles it. Magnification can bring back the part of a ship that the eye has lost because it is too small, but it can only enlarge what is still above the horizon. It cannot bring back the part already below it, just as a zoom lens pointed at the Chicago skyline enlarged the buildings but never restored their lower floors once they had dropped out of sight. If the sea were flat, a ship 100 or 200 miles away should be recoverable with a strong enough telescope on a clear day, and that never happens. When flat-earth videos zoom in on a distant boat with a Nikon P900, the book shows that the zoomed frames contain nothing the first frame lacked: the camera only enlarged what was already visible.

Lake Pontchartrain gives a longer test. The causeway from Metairie to Mandeville is about 24 miles long, and a line of identical power-line towers runs across the water beside it. Without refraction, a six-foot viewer should find the far towers hidden by 294 feet; from the rail of the 11-foot bridge, 265 feet. Photographs show the towers dropping steadily below the horizon, base first, long before any vanishing point. Perspective would give a straight row shrinking to a point, and on a flat lake a powerful telescope should find the last tower 24 miles away. A computer model of the curve, fed the real numbers, matches the photograph so closely that the two can be laid on top of each other.

As for Bedford, later surveyors corrected Rowbotham's method. In 1870 Alfred Russel Wallace adjusted it to avoid atmospheric refraction and found a curve. In 1901 Henry Yule Oldham set three poles at equal height above the water, and through a theodolite the middle pole stood almost three feet higher than the two end poles. The same canal has produced convex, concave and flat results, and the book's point is that the variable doing the work is refraction: warmer air over cooler water can bend light enough to lift a target that geometry says should be hidden.

The book notes that TJ himself calls on refraction to explain a boat reappearing but rejects it when it explains a skyline partly raised from below the horizon. The Dakila boats seen through the telescope show the same looming effect: the air lifted and stretched the image, and the telescope simply showed it more clearly.

  • Perspective shrinks, it never slices

    Distance makes a ship smaller in height and width together. It does not remove the bottom while leaving the top.

  • Zoom restores only what remains

    A telescope can enlarge the part of a ship still above the horizon, but no telescope brings back a hull that has gone below it.

  • Towers drop before vanishing

    On the 24-mile Lake Pontchartrain line the towers sink base first long before perspective could shrink them to a point.

  • Bedford hinged on refraction

    Wallace and Oldham corrected Rowbotham's method and found a curve; Oldham's middle pole stood almost three feet higher than the end poles.

By the numbers

Ship photo sequence
12 photos over about an hour and a half
Lake Pontchartrain causeway
about 24 miles (Metairie to Mandeville)
Hidden height, 6-foot viewer
294 feet
Hidden height, from 11-foot bridge rail
265 feet
Tower (pylon) spacing
950 feet
Bedford Level stretch
six miles (9.7 km)
Rowbotham's telescope height
eight inches above the water
Boat mast
five feet
Oldham's middle pole
almost three feet (0.91 m) higher than the end poles

“I’ve seen plenty of examples where a ship that has appeared to disappear over the curve of the Earth has been restored by a high-powered telescope”

TJ, Globebusters, quoted in Flat Earth Flat Wrong

“Although it is true that magnification will bring back into view a portion of the ship that is not seen with the unaided eye, it cannot bring back into view all of the ship, specifically the part of the ship that has already sunk beneath the horizon.”

Robert Sungenis, quoted in Flat Earth Flat Wrong

Drawn from 24 passages in Flat Earth Flat Wrong. The full treatment: Chapter 6, Earth-Based Evidence for a Spherical Earth: The Bedford Level Experiment; The Lake Pontchartrain Causeway; Viewing Ships Going Over the Horizon; Convex Earth: Boat Experiment.


2

“The sun never goes down. It just moves too far away to see.”

The sun that sets

The flat-earth claim, at full strength

In the flat-earth model the sun is small and close, circling above the disc like a lamp over a room. Wilbur Voliva, the Zion preacher who championed the flat earth from 1914 and broadcast it on his own radio station, put it plainly: the sun is "only 32 miles across and not more than 3,000 miles from the earth," because God made it to light the earth and would place it near its work, as a man would not light a house in Zion with a lamp in Kenosha.

On this view the sun never goes below the horizon at all. It stays about 3,000 miles up, and "sunset" is simply the moment it has moved far enough away that perspective has made it too small to see. Flat-earth videos offer time-lapse footage that seems to show the sun shrinking as it sets, and point to crepuscular rays fanning out from behind clouds as signs of a nearby light source.

The everyday version

A streetlight down a long road

Naked eye

Zoom lens, 6 times

The lamp only got small, so the zoom recovers it.

Watch a lamp carried away down a long, straight road at night. It shrinks to a spark and creeps down toward the horizon, and a zoom lens brings it right back, because nothing has hidden it: it is only small. The sun behaves differently. It stays the same size all the way down, the horizon slices it from the bottom, and once it is gone no lens on earth can find it again. A sun that had only moved far off, as the flat model says, would come back in the zoom.
horizonoverhead

Height above the horizon

44°

Apparent size of the sun

0.53°

The same all day, from sunrise to sunset.

A sun 32 miles wide and 3,000 miles up would behave like a street lamp seen down a long road: as it moved away it would shrink to a speck and sink toward the horizon without ever crossing it. The real sun, photographed through a solar filter in the morning, at noon and in the late afternoon, is the same size all day, and it sets: the horizon cuts across it from the bottom up, and no zoom lens brings it back. Disc sizes are drawn 20 times larger than life.

The answer

The book grants that perspective makes distant things look smaller. But perspective is never strong enough to make something vanish. For that, two parallel lines would have to actually meet, which no one has shown since the days of Pythagoras. So a sun that had only shrunk out of sight should come back when you look through a zoom lens. It never does. Once the sun has set, no zoom lens or telescope, however powerful, can bring its image back, because on a spherical Earth it has passed thousands of miles below the horizon.

Then there is the sun's size across the day. A small sun moving away from you should shrink steadily from noon toward evening. The videos that seem to show this are shot without a solar filter, and without one the glare and flares swamp the picture. An Australian observer, Wolfie6020, photographed the sun with and without a filter a few seconds apart: the unfiltered sun looked about 20 times larger, and about 40 times counting the flares. His filtered time-lapse at 8:31 am, 12:53 pm and 4:22 pm shows the same size sun each time. The moon behaves the same way and does not grow or shrink as it crosses the sky.

He also offered, at his own cost, to send good solar filters to flat-earth video makers so they could repeat the test properly. The book reports that every one of them declined.

Crepuscular rays do not show a small, near sun either. The sun's light reaches us in parallel beams, and they only appear to fan out for the same reason railroad rails appear to meet: perspective. Rays photographed from the International Space Station show the same effect.

The book also notes that flat-earth predictions of sunrise and sunset times fail when checked, for example comparing Boston with Santiago.

  • Perspective never makes things vanish

    Distance shrinks an object but cannot erase it, so a sun lost only to distance should reappear through a zoom lens.

  • No telescope finds a set sun

    Once the sun is down, no lens of any power can recover it, because it is below the horizon.

  • Filtered, the sun keeps one size

    With a proper solar filter, photos at 8:31 am, 12:53 pm and 4:22 pm show the same size sun.

  • Glare fakes a shrinking sun

    Without a filter the sun looked about 20 times larger, and about 40 times with its flares, which misleads unfiltered videos.

By the numbers

Flat-earth sun width (Voliva)
32 miles
Flat-earth sun height (Voliva)
not more than 3,000 miles
Standard sun distance Voliva rejected
91,000,000 miles away
Unfiltered sun vs filtered
about 20 times larger (about 40 times with flares)
Filtered time-lapse
8:31 am, 12:53 pm and 4:22 pm, same size

“The sun is only 32 miles across and not more than 3,000 miles from the earth. It stands to reason it must be so.”

Wilbur Voliva, quoted in Flat Earth Flat Wrong

“But the fact is, once the sun sets, its image cannot be retrieved by any zoom lens or telescope, no matter how powerful.”

Robert Sungenis, quoted in Flat Earth Flat Wrong

Drawn from 11 passages in Flat Earth Flat Wrong. The full treatment: Chapter 1, Popular Personalities in the Flat Earth Movement (Voliva) and the section on sunrise, sunset and perspective; Chapter 5, Do Crepuscular Rays Show the Sun is Small?.


3

“Everyone sees Polaris. The so-called southern pole is just perspective.”

Two poles in the sky

The flat-earth claim, at full strength

Flat-earth teachers place every star under one dome, with Polaris near its peak and the dome only about 3,000 miles above the disc. One presenter the book quotes argues that the dome is so vast that perspective keeps anyone from seeing all the stars at once, yet Polaris, Ursa Major and Ursa Minor can be seen from every point on Earth down to the Tropic of Capricorn. The southern pole stars, he says, such as Sigma Octantis and the Southern Cross, cannot be seen at the same time from every point in the south the way Polaris can from every point in the north, and all stars simply rise in the east and set in the west.

Others go further. A flat-earther called p-brane argues that the southern sky has no rotation of its own: what people see turning around a southern point is an 'anti-rotation' of the northern sky, converging on the opposite horizon the way anti-crepuscular rays of the sun converge opposite a sunrise. Another, a technology worker named Mark, tells Dr. Sungenis that a modern projection system could display every constellation on a dome, in proportion and turning the right way.

The everyday version

Walk over a hill, and the lights change

north lightsouth light

In view right now

Both lights

The hill itself does the hiding.

Aristotle noticed this in the fourth century before Christ: travel a little way south, from Greece to Egypt or Cyprus, and stars appear that never rise farther north, while stars that never set in the north begin to set. Walk over a broad hill between two lights and you see the same thing: the light behind you sinks out of sight as the one ahead comes up. On a flat field you would see both lights from anywhere, and the southern sky shows that the Earth is not a flat field.

Facing north

WE

Facing south

Sigma OctantisEW

Polaris

Below the horizon

The southern pole

36° up

Each hemisphere sees its own pole, and never the other one.

Slide from Fairbanks down to Buenos Aires. On the globe, Polaris sinks with every mile you travel south and drops out of sight past the equator, while a second pole rises out of the southern horizon with its own stars turning around it, clockwise as you face it. Under a flat-earth dome only 3,000 miles up nothing could block Polaris, so it would hang in the northern sky from everywhere, and the southern stars would have nowhere to circle: they would slide sideways along the rim. Photographs from Australia, Réunion Island and Santiago show the southern stars circling their own pole.

The answer

Go south and the sky changes. People in the southern hemisphere watch Chamaeleon, Mensa, Hydrus, Octans and Apus circle a southern pole once every day, and they never see the Little Dipper, Cepheus, Cassiopeia or Draco. The book shows star streams circling the south celestial pole photographed from Australia, from Reunion Island near South Africa, and from Santiago, Chile. From Buenos Aires, facing Sigma Octantis, the star field turns clockwise; facing north, it turns counter-clockwise. In Quito, on the equator, a person can just barely see Polaris to the north and the southern pole stars to the south, each with its own circle.

On a flat disc under a 3,000-mile dome, nothing blocks the view. By the Pythagorean theorem the farthest anyone could be from Polaris is about 12,300 miles, a distance a good telescope should reach. Yet no one at the southern tip of South America has seen Polaris. Perspective does not explain it, because perspective only makes distant things converge; it does not hide them, and a telescope pointed at the vanishing point separates them again.

Fitting two sets of polar stars under one dome also breaks the map. The dome would have to hold twice the stars of either hemisphere. The southern constellations would have to be stretched around the rim above the 75,000-mile ice wall, Chamaeleon at 12 o'clock, Mensa at 3, Hydrus at 5, Octans at 7 and Apus at 10, instead of forming a small circle around a pole as they do in the real sky. The 'anti-rotation' idea fails too: anti-crepuscular rays never form an image of their source, starlight is far too dim to make such rays, and the southern stars do not mirror the northern ones. Sigma Octantis is not even an exact counterpart to Polaris; it only lies near the southern pole.

Star trail photographs agree. Computer models of the globe match real trails over Lake Tekapo, New Zealand, and Death Valley, California, and are 'virtually identical' to the photographs. From the Canary Islands, near the equator, a camera can catch two swirls turning opposite ways, one around each pole, though never both pole points at once. After Wolfie6020 answered his star trail challenge in June 2017, flat-earther Jeran Campanella deleted his challenge videos and admitted the globe gets the star trails right.

None of this needs a moving Earth. In the book's geocentric picture the whole star field turns around a fixed, spherical Earth, and the curve of that Earth hides the opposite pole from each hemisphere. As Aristotle saw, a short trip south brings new stars into view.

  • The southern sky has its own pole

    Chamaeleon, Mensa, Hydrus, Octans and Apus circle a southern pole every day, turning clockwise to someone facing south in Buenos Aires.

  • Polaris vanishes in the far south

    Under a 3,000-mile dome nothing would block it, yet no one at the tip of South America sees it.

  • Perspective shrinks, it does not hide

    Perspective makes things converge, and a telescope separates them again; it cannot remove a whole set of constellations.

  • One dome cannot hold both

    The southern constellations would be scattered around a 75,000-mile rim, not clustered around a pole as observers actually see them.

  • Star trails match the globe

    Real trails over New Zealand and Death Valley match globe models, and Jeran Campanella withdrew his challenge in 2017.

By the numbers

Flat-earth dome height
about 3,000 miles
Flat-earth disc diameter
perhaps 24,000 miles
Farthest distance from Polaris on the flat model
12,300 miles
Lowest Polaris appears in the Canary Islands photo
10 to 15 degrees above the equator
Seasonal rise and fall of the star field
47 degrees every six months
Stars the one dome must hold
twice the stars of one hemisphere

“Certain stars are seen in Egypt and the neighborhood of Cyprus, which are invisible in more northerly lands, and stars which are continuously visible in the northern countries are observed to set in the others.”

Aristotle, On the Heavens II, 14, quoted in Flat Earth Flat Wrong

“I have deleted the challenge videos and will admit that there are star trails on the globe earth.”

Jeran Campanella, quoted in Flat Earth Flat Wrong

Drawn from 28 passages in Flat Earth Flat Wrong. The full treatment: Chapter 5, Scientific Analysis of Flat Earth Theory: 'Constellations Seen from a Globe and Flat Earth', 'Star Trails', and 'Are Crepuscular Rays an Answer to the Southern Stars?'.


4

“Antarctica is an ice wall at the edge, and the sun never circles over it.”

The sun that never sets south

The flat-earth claim, at full strength

On the flat-earth map Antarctica is not a continent at the bottom of a globe but a wall of ice about 75,000 miles around the rim of the disc. The sun, perhaps 28 miles across and about 3,000 miles up, circles above the disc like a painted horse on a carousel, casting a cone of light like a spotlight; it rides the Tropic of Cancer in June and the Tropic of Capricorn in December.

Jeran Campanella argues that the Antarctic evidence has been handled to hide this. In a South Pole webcam time-lapse the flag's shadow never goes all the way around, and white smoke or snow blows along the horizon. He says that if the far north gets four months of full sun, the far south should get four months of none at the same time, and that it does not: 'At the most they get six weeks.' He grants that Antarctica does get six weeks of full sun, but says no one there sees the sun circle overhead.

The everyday version

A flashlight over a plate

a flashlight circling over a plate

Rim of the plate lit

13%

One patch at a time.

The book's own picture: the flat-earth sun travels over the disc like a flashlight over a large plate. Walk a flashlight in a circle above a dinner plate and it lights one patch of the rim at a time, never the whole edge at once. Now carry a lamp around a ball, a little below its middle: the bottom of the ball stays lit the whole way round. That is a southern summer, and it is what Antarctica gets every December.
Antarctica, the larger dots at the bottom

Antarctica in daylight right now

100%

All of it, all day: the midnight sun the webcams record.

Around December 21, Antarctica has sunlight all 24 hours while the Arctic has none; in June it is the other way round. On the globe that falls out of the geometry: in December the sun's daily circle runs south of the equator, so the whole southern cap stays in its light as it goes round. On the flat map, Antarctica is a 75,000-mile ice wall around the rim, and a spotlight sun circling the Tropic of Capricorn lights only one stretch of it at a time. Lighting all of it at once would take a beam covering about 75 percent of the disc, and then the sun could not also leave half the world in darkness.

The answer

Reality sets a test the flat model has to pass. On December 21, and for many days before and after, Antarctica is lit for 24 hours while the Arctic gets no sunlight; on June 21 it is the reverse. On the flat map that means the whole 75,000-mile ice wall must be lit at once. A spotlight sun circling over the Tropic of Capricorn barely lights a fourth of the disc, yet in December its light would have to cover about 75 percent of it.

The flat model is caught either way. If the sun's light is not held to a cone, it shines in every direction and should be seen even from Australia, 6,000 to 7,000 miles away, as a dim star. If it is held to a cone, it cannot light half the Earth at any moment, as the real sun does, and it cannot light the whole rim in December. Switching from a narrow June spotlight to a wide December one would need a mechanism no flat-earther has offered. The Tropic of Capricorn on the flat map is also about twice the circumference of the Tropic of Cancer (52,775 miles against 26,376), so the December sun would have to run twice as fast.

The webcam Campanella used is stamped 'Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station 2010-12-14 15-20-00', seven days before the southern summer solstice, when the sun is up all day at the Pole. The flag's shadow jumps 180 degrees in one second of the video, which shows that about half a day of footage is missing. The book does not know whether that was deliberate or accidental, but reading it as proof that the station hides the sun is, in the book's words, pure speculation. Run to the end, the video shows the sun or its light always in the sky.

Webcams at Casey and Davis stations, both about 1,250 miles from the South Pole, show what a globe predicts in autumn. On May 9, 2018, Casey had light from 8:25 am to 4:40 pm and Davis from 9:55 am to 6:30 pm, about 8 hours 30 minutes of light each, with the hour and a half gap expected for stations about 1,200 miles apart. The sun sets below the horizon there, against Campanella's claim that it only moves from northeast to northwest.

All of this fits the book's picture of a fixed, spherical Earth with the sun circling it: around December 21 the sun's daily circle runs south of the equator and keeps the southern cap in daylight, and around June 21 it runs north of it and leaves the cap dark. Qantas also runs 19 routes over Antarctica, with tours that show the whole continent in as little as five hours, something hard to square with a rim.

  • December: Antarctica lit all day

    Around December 21 Antarctica gets 24-hour sunlight while the Arctic is dark, and the reverse happens in June.

  • A spotlight cannot light the rim

    A sun circling the Tropic of Capricorn lights about a fourth of the disc, not the 75 percent needed to light the whole 75,000-mile ice wall.

  • Either a cone or a star

    Without a cone the sun would be seen everywhere; with one it cannot light half the Earth at once.

  • The webcam gap proves nothing hidden

    The 2010-12-14 South Pole footage skips half a day, and the book calls the cover-up reading pure speculation.

  • Casey and Davis fit the globe

    Both stations showed about 8 hours 30 minutes of light on May 9, 2018, with the sun setting below the horizon.

By the numbers

Flat-earth ice wall circumference
about 75,000 miles
Flat-earth disc radius needed
11,942 miles
Flat-earth sun
about 28 miles across, about 3,000 miles up
Share of the disc a spotlight sun lights
barely a fourth
Share it must light on December 21
about 75%
Tropic of Capricorn on the flat map
52,775-mile circumference (Tropic of Cancer 26,376 miles)
South Pole webcam stamp
2010-12-14, 3:20 pm, seven days before the solstice
Casey and Davis distance from the South Pole
about 1,250 miles
Daylight at Casey and Davis, May 9, 2018
about 8 hours 30 minutes
Qantas routes over Antarctica
19

“Now, I will admit that for six weeks Antarctica does get full sun. I’ve seen it on these webcam footages.”

Jeran Campanella, quoted in Flat Earth Flat Wrong

Drawn from 22 passages in Flat Earth Flat Wrong. The full treatment: Chapter 5, Scientific Analysis of Flat Earth Theory: 'Day and Night on a Flat Earth' and 'Sunlight in Antarctica'; also Chapter 6, 'Antarctica: Ice Wall or Continent?'.


5

“Look at the flight paths. On a ball they make no sense; on the flat map they fit perfectly.”

The flights that could not happen

The flat-earth claim, at full strength

Flat-earthers say the real proof for their map is in the airline schedules. On a globe, they argue, several Southern Hemisphere flights should be short, straight hops across the ocean or near Antarctica. Instead, they say, those flights take long detours north to refuel: Johannesburg to Perth, which should be a simple 11-hour shot across the Indian Ocean, stops in Dubai, Hong Kong or Malaysia for a total of over 18 hours, and Johannesburg to Santiago, Chile crosses the equator to refuel in Senegal for a total of 19 hours.

Laid out on the azimuthal flat-earth map, with the North Pole at the center, those stopovers seem to line up neatly. To a flat-earther this looks like the airlines quietly flying the true shape of the world while the public is told it is a ball.

The everyday version

Peel an orange flat

the orangepressed flat: gaps

Sideways stretch at Sydney's latitude

1.0×

The true peel: no stretch, just gaps.

Try to press an orange peel flat on a table and it splits, leaving wedge-shaped gaps that grow wider toward the bottom. The flat-earth map is made the same way: the globe is sliced from the North Pole down, and every gap is closed by stretching the land sideways. Halfway down the stretch is 1.6 times; at Sydney's and Santiago's latitude it is about 2.6 times; at the rim it has no limit. That stretch is the extra distance a Sydney to Santiago flight would have to cover.

On the globe

SydneySantiagoAntarctica

Distance and speed

7,046 mi

about 591 mph (the book's figure), an ordinary airliner cruise

On the flat-earth map

North PoleSydneySantiago

Distance and speed

15,900 mi

about 1,330 mph, roughly twice the speed of sound up there

0.0 of 12 hours flown

Qantas flies Sydney to Santiago, Chile four times a week: about 7,046 miles in about 12 hours, crossing the Southern Ocean toward the 70 degrees South waypoint the pilots report. On the globe that is an ordinary long-haul flight at jet speed. On the flat-earth map the two cities sit on opposite sides of the outer ring, and the straight line between them cuts across the disc, up through the northern hemisphere. Flying that line in the scheduled 12 hours takes about twice the speed of sound at cruising height, which no airliner can do. The flat-map distance is measured on the azimuthal map itself.

The answer

The book starts with the map itself. The azimuthal map is made by slicing a globe into sections and flattening them, and each peel, spread out flat at its lower end, leaves huge gaps that must be filled with larger oceans or stretched continents. When all is said and done, the flat map made from a globe comes out about 2.5 times the size, so distances between the southern continents grow far larger than they are on a globe.

Then it checks the claimed detours. Not every Johannesburg to Santiago flight stops in Dakar, Senegal; some go by way of Sao Paulo, Brazil. And, quoting Mick West of Metabunk, the Johannesburg to Perth travellers are not on one flight that "stops over" in Dubai. They are making a connection between two separate flights, because there is simply not much demand for a direct Johannesburg to Perth service, so passengers mostly route through a larger hub.

The flights that do exist are the problem for the flat map. Qantas flies Sydney to Santiago, Chile four times a week (flights QF27 and QF28). On a globe the trip is about 12 hours and 7,046 geodetic miles, at about 591 mph. Metabunk's analysis, which the book calls the best on the question, says this flight would be impossible on the flat-earth model, requiring the plane to travel at twice the speed of sound. Drawn on the flat map, the route comes out about three times as long as Santiago to London, when it is actually a much shorter flight. Johannesburg to Perth, a short 9-hour flight in the real world, becomes impossibly long on a flat Earth.

The book adds a working Qantas pilot. Writing while QF28 (Santiago to Sydney) was in the air, he gave its planned flight time as 13 hours 27 minutes over a planned 6,347 nautical miles, and said the aircraft was approaching the 70 degrees South waypoint, with its guidance tied to GPS receivers and inertial systems. He pointed readers to FlightAware to check it. A separate Metabunk thread matched a Qantas pilot's video of the sea ice with satellite images. The book also notes that Qantas has 19 routes over Antarctica and runs tours that show the whole continent in as little as five hours.

On the related question of whether a pilot must keep forcing the nose down to follow the curve, the book says both models have a downward pull (gravity on the globe, buoyancy for the flat-earther), so both need the plane trimmed against it. A pilot sets attitude, then power, then trim when leveling off, and the aircraft follows the curve simply by holding its altitude. The pilot Wolfie6020, quoted in the book, puts the change at 450 knots as a smooth 1 degree every 8 minutes, too slow for any pilot to feel.

  • The flat map stretches the south

    Flattening a globe into the azimuthal map makes it about 2.5 times the size, so every southern distance grows.

  • Sydney to Santiago runs weekly

    Qantas QF27 and QF28 cover about 7,046 miles in about 12 to 13.5 hours. On the flat map the plane would need twice the speed of sound.

  • A connection is not a detour

    Johannesburg to Perth passengers change planes at a hub like Dubai because there is little demand for a direct flight. It is two flights, not one bent route.

  • The pilot passes 70 degrees South

    A Qantas pilot reported QF28 approaching the 70 degrees South waypoint on GPS and inertial guidance, and said anyone can check it on FlightAware.

  • No nose-down fight required

    Holding a steady altitude makes the plane follow the curve at about 1 degree every 8 minutes, a change no pilot feels.

By the numbers

Sydney to Santiago (globe)
7,046 geodetic miles, about 12 hours, about 591 mph
QF28 Santiago to Sydney (pilot's plan)
13 hours 27 minutes, 6,347 nautical miles
Waypoint on the route
70 degrees South
Qantas Sydney to Santiago flights
four per week
Speed needed on the flat map
twice the speed of sound
Route length on the flat map
about three times as long as Santiago to London
Flat map size versus globe
about 2.5 times
Johannesburg to Perth (real world)
a short 9-hour flight
Flat-earth claim, Johannesburg to Perth
over 18 hours via Dubai, Hong Kong or Malaysia
Flat-earth claim, Johannesburg to Santiago
19 hours via Senegal
Qantas routes over Antarctica
19
Nose attitude change at 450 knots
1 degree every 8 minutes

“To debunk the Flat Earth theory, you can just use Sydney to Santiago, Chile, Qantas flight 27, 7000 miles. 12-hour flight. This flight would be impossible on the Flat Earth model, requiring the plane to travel at twice the speed of sound.”

Metabunk.org, quoted in the book, quoted in Flat Earth Flat Wrong

“I fly over a globe, otherwise none of what I do would work. Simple as that.”

A Qantas pilot, quoted in the book, quoted in Flat Earth Flat Wrong

Drawn from 15 passages in Flat Earth Flat Wrong. The full treatment: Chapter 6, "Plain Problems with Plane Travel" and "Plane Travel: Must the Nose Be Forced Down?".

Before the science, the Bible

What Scripture and the Fathers say

The book takes up the Bible before the science because that is what moves most flat-earthers. In its own estimate, what drives them is about 10% scientific evidence and about 90% conviction that the Bible teaches the Earth is flat, and a believer who thinks God told him so will not be argued out of it by photographs. So the book meets them on their own ground, reading every passage literally unless Scripture itself signals a figure.

Its overall answer is that the Bible never calls the Earth flat in any way, shape or form, and never uses the words "round Earth" or "spherical Earth" either. The shape has to be drawn out of what the text says, and when the key verses are read closely in Hebrew and Greek they fit a globe at least as well as a disc, and usually better. The book's aim, it says, is to free the Bible from a mold it does not fit, because if flat-earthers are proven wrong the skeptics will blame the Bible for leading them astray.

  1. Isaiah 40:22

    “It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in.”

    The flat-earth reading

    The Hebrew kug means a flat circle, and Hebrew had a separate word for a ball (Isaiah 22:18) that would have been used if the Earth were a sphere.

    The book's reading

    Kug describes something with a curved shape, which fits a disc, a dome or a sphere, so the verse only says the Earth is curved rather than square. God looking down from above would see a globe as a circle, and the 1609 Douay-Rheims renders it "globe of the Earth."

  2. Job 26:10

    “He has described a circle upon the face of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness.”

    The flat-earth reading

    God drew a circle on the waters, marking out the round edge of a flat disc.

    The book's reading

    The circle is placed where light meets darkness, which is exactly what happens on a sphere, where one half is lit and the other dark. A flat disc under a small spotlight sun has no such single circle between light and darkness.

  3. Apocalypse 7:1

    “After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on earth or sea or against any tree.”

    The flat-earth reading

    Only a flat surface can have corners, so the verse describes a flat Earth set inside a square frame.

    The book's reading

    The Apocalypse is a vision full of symbolic numbers ("four" alone appears 33 times), and the Hebrew for "corners" often means a region or a compass direction. Taken literally it would prove too much, since flat-earthers draw a round disc, not a square, and Isaiah 40:22 calls the Earth a circle.

  4. Matthew 4:8

    “Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them.”

    The flat-earth reading

    No mountain on a ball could show every kingdom of the world, so the Earth must be flat.

    The book's reading

    Natural eyesight could not see across a 24,000-mile flat disc either, and any supernatural sight would work just as well on a globe. Luke's parallel speaks of the inhabited kingdoms in view at that moment, not the whole Earth.

  5. Daniel 4:10

    “The visions of my head as I lay in bed were these: I saw, and behold, a tree in the midst of the earth; and its height was great…”

    The flat-earth reading

    A tree seen from the ends of the whole Earth only works if the Earth is flat.

    The book's reading

    It is a dream, and verses 20 to 22 explain it as a symbol of Nebuchadnezzar's greatness. Even taken literally, a tree reaching about 40 miles up from Babylon's center could see the whole kingdom, about 500 miles in radius, on a spherical Earth.

  6. Apocalypse 1:7

    “Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, everyone who pierced him; and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.”

    The flat-earth reading

    On a round Earth half the world could not see Christ return, so the Earth must be flat.

    The book's reading

    The objection assumes people stay on the ground, but Scripture says the living and the dead will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; John 5:28-29). And even on a flat Earth, New York cannot see the sky over Jerusalem.

  7. Proverbs 8:27

    “When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep.”

    The flat-earth reading

    God drew the flat disc of Earth as a circle on top of the Great Deep beneath it.

    The book's reading

    The same word kug fits the curved face of a sphere of water, and the verse speaks of a circle on the face of the water, not a circle carved out of a square land mass.

  8. Job 38:12-14

    “Have you commanded the morning since your days began, and caused the dawn to know its place, that it might take hold of the skirts of the earth, and the wicked be shaken out of it? It is changed like clay under the seal, and it is dyed like a garment.”

    The flat-earth reading

    Like a flat seal pressed into clay, the Earth is flat with features marked on its surface.

    The book's reading

    The Hebrew says the Earth is "changed" like clay under the seal and like a dyed garment. Both pictures are about change as God shakes out the wicked, not about shape.

  9. 1 Samuel 2:8

    “For the pillars of the earth are the Lords, and on them he has set the world.”

    The flat-earth reading

    The Earth sits on literal pillars, as in the terrarium model of a dome over a disc resting on four spring-mounted pillars.

    The book's reading

    Job 26:7 says God "hangs the earth upon nothing," so the pillars cannot be supports outside the Earth; the book reads them as structures inside the Earth that hold it steady. Outside pillars would themselves need something to stand on.

The firmament is not a dome

Most flat-earthers, and nearly all Christian ones, rest their case on Genesis 1 describing the firmament as a dome fitted over a flat Earth, and several modern translations (NAB, NJB, NRS, TNIV) use "dome" or imply it. The book traces this idea to historical-critical scholarship, which from the 1700s onward treated Genesis as a copy of older Mesopotamian creation stories rather than inspired history. It is these scholars, the book says, who produced the claim that the ancients pictured a flat disc under a hard dome, and a flat-earther who adopts the dome is borrowing from people who denied that Genesis was inspired at all.

The book agrees that the Hebrew raqiya means something solid. What it denies is that raqiya names a shape: it names a substance, and no passage gives the firmament a shape, much less a dome. Genesis says God called the firmament heaven, that the sun, moon and stars are placed in it, and that birds fly in it. The only reading that meets all three, the book argues, is that the firmament is the make-up of space itself. Birds do not fly inside a dome, and a raqiya cannot be both a thin shell thousands of miles up and all the space below it.

What the Fathers taught

According to the book, the Fathers of the Church believed and taught the Earth was a sphere almost to a man. It names Ambrose, Arnobius, Archelaus, Athanasius, Augustine, Basil, Clement of Alexandria, Cyril of Jerusalem, Eusebius, Gregory of Nyssa, Gregory Nazianzus, Gregory Thaumaturgus, Irenaeus, Jerome, John Damascene and the Venerable Bede as teaching a globe, a sphere, two hemispheres or a round body. Some, like Chrysostom, Methodius and Severian of Gabala, pictured the heavens as a hemisphere, but none of them conceded a flat Earth. Even Leo Ferrari, the Augustine scholar who founded the Flat Earth Society of Canada in 1970, admits Augustine accepted a sphere.

The only one who plainly taught a flat Earth as doctrine was Cosmas Indicopleustes (around 550), a Greek merchant who was never counted a Church Father and held no office in the Church. His box-shaped world was never influential, and scholars quoted in the book call him the only medieval European known to have defended a flat Earth. Lactantius did question a spherical Earth, but only because of the antipodes (people standing upside down on the far side), and he never said the Earth is flat or offered another shape. The book closes the chapter with the popes, from Gregory the Great to Pius XII, who speak routinely of the Church spread across "the globe".

Drawn from 60 passages in Flat Earth Flat Wrong. The full treatment: Chapter 2 (Biblical Analysis of Flat Earth Exegesis), Chapter 3 (Patristic Analysis of Spherical v. Flat Earth) and Chapter 4 (The Biblical Firmament).

Tests you can run yourself

None of the five needs a space agency. A zoom lens on a ship or a sunset, a solar filter, a night under the southern sky, a South Pole webcam in December and a published airline schedule are all within anyone's reach, and each gives the same answer. The book's complaint about flat-earthers is that they stop looking before the evidence is in.